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Thread: Intro to Fairfield Fairshare Plus

  1. #1
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    Intro to Fairfield Fairshare Plus

    This is my view of FF point system. It is intended for people that has no idea about FF. There is another FF group at Yahoo, and it has more people knowledge then me, and it contains a lot of files there. It also established for 7 years, so contains a lot of good history information. However, it recently has some tech. problem, so I think a simple intro to FF point system probably should be kept outside that group. However, when the issue solved, and that group start to accept new membership, I strongly suggest you joint in for the following reasons:

    1. I am not an expert, I own just enough points to cover my own vacation needs. I usually travel using TS just for 2 to 4 times per year, so a lot of my knowledge is depended on the people that owns more points and travel more than me. I don't even own TS long enough or work for FF or TS related business, nor do I have a friend in that position. All I write here is either my experience or based on FF's 2006-2007 directory
    2. That Yahoo group contains more information create and maintain by other group members, I do not have interesting to steal their work and claim it or try to maintain them. But I believe if they want and wish, they will put their work in some place as a backup plan.

    The intend is for people who think they can make right decision when they educate them enough. With the profile of most TS owners - mid to figh income, matured, well educate. And with the increase expension of internet, I believe more and more people will think it is a best way. If you are an owner, I think you can look at the directory, and check inventory yourself.

    I believe there are three parts regarding a TS system
    1. How the system works
    2. The inventory supply and demanding
    3. The company or club or trust that control this.

    The following is just my personal feeling, it does not represent majority feeling, and may not be right. Please make your best judgement.

    Besides Yahoo, you should also look at the Tug's advise section. One of the owner has also write a better (at least English readable) article about FF system.


  2. #2
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    FF Program Type

    FF starts with fix week. It has a FAX program to satisfy internal exchange. However, as my understanding, since it starts its point program (FairShare Plus, or FSP), FAX’s inventory has been significantly reduced. There are no new inventories come in. Don’t know anything about this program.

    FSP is the points given by Trust that user can use it

    The rest of the programs are build on top of FSP

    In order to help selling their points, FF creates VIP program that provide some benefits using the FSP. IMHO, probably some retail purchase VIP owners think it should be protect, or perhaps FF realize it is a very powerful selling tools, at this moment, FF’s position is you can become the member of this club automatically and upgrade to different levels once you have accumulate enough points given directly by FF. Resell FSP contracts are not be able to count on VIP level. However, you can use the points for all VIP benefits if you get that level of VIP benefits

    When FF tries to gain access on HI, it creates some arrangement with Outrigger. It creates an Outrigger Club for the owners that own resorts managed by Outrigger (Notice the resort must be managed by Outrigger).

    When RCI creates its own point system, FF creates a Plus Partnership (PP) on top of that program. At this moment, you have to be RCI affiliate to use the RCI nightly stay. The right is not transferred with resale. However, if you purchase any retail, it will give to you as free gift at this moment. Otherwise, you can pay some amount like $2,395 (???) to joint in. Once in, all your FSP points will be included. You will need to pay extra FSP membership fee

    FF has several travel related program to help you use your points – Cruise, Adventure Club, PP Travel Program. Except PP Program that you have to be PP owner to use it, all other programs allow you to use all your points. Adventure Club is designed guided-tour, it starts with 300k per person. It is out of my range. But I read some owners that attended are very happy about the trip. Don’t know about Cruise.

    FF has the following coupon program (similar to entertainment book) – Leisure Plan,

    FF has the following owner refer program if you refer someone to take their tour, but make sure your referrer will ask them to give you the reward – Ambassador Referral Program feature Trip Reward, it is like a mileage program. You can use the points toward traveling. I don’t use this program.

    There are other resorts managed by FF but not including in any of the FF program.


  3. #3
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    How to get FSP points and Point Type

    How to get FSP points
    These are the type of contracts I have seen
    1. UDI units by FF. Basically, FF groups several units or a whole building, or a whole projects and assign them the point value, and sell it. So you have the same rights as another owner. The MF and property tax is divided by the total points, so the cost per point will be the same. At the ARP period, you can reserve any time period, and the unit will randomly assign to you. It is like a floating system. Start this year, you will not be able to ARP a unit and deposit it to a week account given by FF. It is deeded, so if the resort one day decides to leave FF, you still get a piece of that resort for whatever it worth.
    2. Converted fix units. Not all FF fixed units can be converted. So you need to check with resorts. However, you can assign the fix week units to FSP. The point value is depended on resort, unit type, and the season. MF is based on the fix unit HOA, so the large size, better season will give you lower MF per point. And less size, blue season will give you higher MF per point. When ARP, you can only get that week and that unit. However, you can deposit that week to external exchange company assigned by FF. It is deeded by a specific unit on a specific week. The current cost to convert a fix FF week is $2,395 (???) 1st week and $995(???) for the following week up to a number, or purchase certain retail points, and it is $189 per week.
    3. Discover Program points or Go-For-more-Point. I never deal with this. To my understanding, it is backed by the deeds owned by FF, and you will have to pay MF to use them. It usually last for 2 years. It will give you the VIP for these years. It supposes to lock your purchase for these years, and serve as down payment if you do purchase from FF. Although for 7 years, I did not hear FF increases their purchase cost per point, instead they are increase the total number of points required to reserve a week for the new developing resort. I did hear rumors that the price will be increased next year or next year The MF will be decided based on the deeds FF used.
    4. Affiliate resort contract – Some other developer package their units and assigned to FSP, so when you purchase that, you may get either deed or right to use.
    5. A points back on the full trust of FF – it is not deeded, I was told that a while ago, FF did sell some of the contract based only on the trust of their company. Have no idea how MF is calculated. It probably is a club type of deal, but have really no idea about it.
    6. PIC – with a retail purchase from FF you can bring max. 2 non-FF resort week to make it assignable to FSP program in exchange to the points.
    7. Other – I do hear that sometimes, if you have property (sole ownership) managed by FF, you could get points that way, but have no idea what it is, and how it operates.

    FSP points type

    These are the point types I know of
    1. Regular Use Points – You get it every year or every other year, it expires within 1 year. Depends on when the points were purchased from retail. The point could be given start from different months (call use year) if you have multiple contracts. For the same contract, it will be given at the use year starts and it will be fixed. But I heard it can be changed, I never done that. Converted week will start from Jan 1.
    2. PIC points – start from the day FF acknowledges the deposit, it has one year time before expired
    3. Credit Pool Points – You can deposit Regular Use Points before its use year starts (or 6 month after use year start if you are gold+ VIP), it will expired 3 years from the date you deposit it
    4. Cancel points – It will start from the day you cancel a reservation and end at the nearest use year end day.
    5. Limit points - It will start from the day you cancel a reservation if it is less than 30 days and end at the nearest use year end day

  4. #4
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    VIP Benefits

    VIP Level is decided by all the FSP points that
    1. purchased directly from FF or its affiliate
    2. by Will or Interstate succession
    3. acquired from “Immediate” family.
    4. through PIC conversion
    for 300k, it is standard VIP, for 500k it is Gold, for 1M, it is Platinum. You have to maintain that point level. EOY points will be dived by 2 when count toward VIP level

    The following are the VIP benefits (standard-gold-platinum, x not avail)
    1. ARP on associate resort (2-4-unlimited)
    2. RARP (x-1-2)
    3. Unlimited HK credit for internal transaction (Y-Y-Y)
    4. Unlimited transaction credit (x-Y-Y)
    5. Free Guest confirmation (x-Y-Y) – I believe it is $25??? Per, and start 2006, if you reserve two units at the same trip, you have to get GC. They will try to use that as their referral and it will not count as your referral. It will get changed in 2007 Aug. The proposed rule is every FSP member get 1 free GC, VIP get 5 free GC, Gold get 10 free GC, and Plantimun will get 15 per 1M point owned
    6. Point credit pool (x-6month-6month) The gold+ VIP can wait till 6 month until their use year starts to deposit unused regular reservation point to point credit pool, start in 2007 Aug, Plantimun will get 9 month to put into credit pool
    7. External Exchange unit size upgrade for white and blue week only (x-Y-Y)
    8. FF Avis benefit package (x-Y-Y) – some free upgrade and discount, with the split don’t know if the benefit will be the same.
    9. Exclusive toll free VIP service line (Y-Y-Y) – based on the survive, it has less waiting time in “avg.”
    10. Points Convert to MF (3 month extension-6month-9month)
    11. Free Leisure Plan Renew (x-Y-Y)
    12. Addition Trip Reward Points (15k-17.5k-20k)
    13. Enhanced resort information (Y-Y-Y) – has no idea what it is.
    14. Resort special Notification (Y-Y-Y) – no idea what it is.
    15. VIP id card (Y-Y-Y) – this probably not really a benefit.
    16. Plantimun member start at Aug 2007 can use Plus Partner program at 45 day range (all other is at 60 day range)
    The following are based on resorts it has to be managed by FF (not sure if owner has to be there)
    1. Request a specific unit (x-Y-Y) – based on availability
    The following are based on resorts it has to be managed by FF, plus the owner has to be there
    1. Mid week HK (x-Y-Y)
    2. Early check in from 4pm to 2pm
    3. Special check in area
    The following is set as per trip based,
    1. Discount point value at 60 days (25%-35%-50%) upto total points owned by the owner.
    2. Unit upgrade to the lowest available unit (30 days-45days-60days) – if there is a unit available, you can upgrade once to the lowest available units. So if you reserve a studio, and there are 1 br and 2br avail. You can get 1 Br with studio points. If there are only 2 Br avail. You can get that with studio points.

  5. #5
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    PP Benefits

    Travel Benefits – You can use your points to get Air, Car, Hotel, Disney Park ticket. It will need extra transaction charge (currently, it is $35) Due to MF cost, I don’t think any one is really good deal (Limited Point can not be used), but I could overlook something and get a wrong conclusion. At this year (2006), some owner has done an estimation that the value of the FF points used in this program is around $3.1 to $3.5 per 1000 FF points. Which compare to MF is around $3 to $7 (no including FSP membership fee).

    RCI nightly stay benefits – you can get RCI point resort, so I will believe the inventory is opened based on either RCI points rule (if it depends on RCI to manage it) or when the resort decides to open to RCI points. However, I don’t own RCI points and not a PP member, so no idea if that is true or not. However, I understand is you don’t have any on-line search ability, but the point value per stay is based on a generic table not on RCI point value, so you do not give RCI x amount of FSP points to get y amount of RCI points. You can only get RCI point resorts

    As of the current moment the translation is (red weekday-red weekend-red week; white week date- white weekend-white week; blue week date- blue weekend-blue week) all is per 1000 points
    Studio (7-17.5-70;5-8.5-42;3-6.5-28)
    1Br (12-22.5-105;8-18.5-77;7-14-63)

    The 2nd difference between this and RCI point account is (based on 2006 directory), if you cancel the trip, it is follow the FF internal exchange rule, so if before 30 days, it goes back to cancel point, if within 30 days, it become limited account pool.

    The 3rd difference is FF PP account does not allow you ability to search on RCI point account.

    All resorts in FSP program are considering point resorts, thus you will not be able to use RCI point accounts PFD (point for deposit) to get RCI points. Also, I have not read anyone says you can combine RCI points with FF PP (I will guess it is because FF use a generic point table). By combine I was talking the following situation, you have 100k FF, you want to get a 2BR RCI point resort for 1 wk, and it requires 60k RCI points. You also have another RCI point account that gives you 22k RCI points. You will not be able to combine FF points with that RCI points.

  6. #6
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    Outrigger Club Benefits

    Have no idea how this works. It is a new one. Based on the recent directory (2006 -2007), the owner has to own deeds in the Outrigger resort project and maintain certain standard (use to be managed by Outrigger and maintain certain standard). Only the points that associated with that project can be apply to the club benefit
    These are the benefits
    1. Owner can reserve all FSP HI resorts at 12 month (unlimited)
    2. There are certain Outrigger managed hotels that Owner can use FSP points to make reservation starts from 13 month. (FSP points is mentioned in this sentence, so I will guess all the FSP points, but I could be wrong)
    3. During Standard Reservation period (10 month to 90 days), FSP can keep 25% of the available units exclusively for the use of club member (don’t know if the club member has to be in the trip)
    4. Based on 2005-2006 Directory, it is possible to pay extra to create a exclusive right, that at 14 month for certain holidays, FSP will automatically reserve a unit to the owner that paying the exclusive right, it is taken out at 2006-2007 directory. At this moment, only KHV (Kona) is currently in the inventory and they are selling Wikiki, I will assume there is not good seeling on this, so it get removed.

  7. #7
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    PIC program

    It allows you to bring in the up to 2 non-FF resorts weeks into the FSP. You have to purchase retail UDI contracts from FF. The last I heard is 77k (???) for the 1st week and 4xk(???) for the 2nd week
    The week has to be RCI week, and can not belong to a mini system or a point based week. So if you want do this, you need to check with their sales dept.
    I never do any PIC. But I know you can not sell PIC week and re-assign the FSP point rights to new owner. There are a lot of gray areas like if the underline resorts ever determine to become a RCI point resort; or if the resort becomes another mini-system; or if FF purchase that resort, what will happen? .I do know that once you PIC a week, every year you need to pay a PIC fee, does not matter if you want to assign the week to FF or not. And if you want to assign that week to FSP, you need to deposit it to RCI then let FF know and pay some fee (it is $50). And the point will be expired in one year after FF acknowledges it.

    The point you can get from PIC (red-white-blue season)
    Studio (70-42-28)
    1Br (105-77-63)

    For 4 or more BR, it is not defined. Someone claim if it is a lock-out, it will be treated as 2 weeks. I found it is hard to believe since 3 BR can be lock out with no problem. I will think it is up to discussion.

  8. #8
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    The FSP membership fee (2007)

    Based on if you have PP or not, this are the membership fee (you need to add MF from each association, and if it is FL property, you need to add FL property Tax, The Yahoo group has a MF table and calculator)

    154k or less ($83.7-$101.7)
    upto 299999 (.54/1000 -.66/1000)
    over 300000 (.48/1000 -.50/1000)

    So if you have 300k, and all from resell and you did not pay extra to joint PP, it will be .48 * 300 or 144 per year

    * this fee was reduced by 10% in all level started from 2007

  9. #9
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    Use FSP points

    You can use the FSP points to
    1. Do FF internal reservation on a resort unit
    2. Exchange to an external exchange company’s week program
    3. Using PP exchange to RCI nightly stay
    4. Using Outrigger Club, exchange their hotel/resort room
    5. Using PP for travel program
    6. Used on Adventure Club Activities
    7. Used on Cruise
    8. Exchange for MF credit, currently it is $2.1 per 1000 point.
    I only did the 1st 2. My impression is except the first 3, the others are not that cost effective. However, it depends on the MF of the points.

  10. #10
    Silver Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    FF Internal Reservation Process

    Unless it is really a prime season at beach or special holiday, I usually don’t find it is a problem to make reservation at 10 month period.

    Reservation time line and reservation length

    Below is the time line for FF internal reservation

    13 month – ARP reservation, you can use all your regular use year points that cover the check-in days and backed by the deed of the home resort to reserve that resort. So if you have 3 contracts, 84k, and 105 k for Kingsgate, 126k for Westwinds, you can use 189k to make ARP on Kingsgate and 126K for Westwinds
    12 month – Outrigger Club member can start to reserve any HI FF resorts using the points backed by the deed of the Outrigger Club.
    12 month – VIP can start to use all their points to reserve the Assocaite resorts
    11 ½ month –For a very hot season, you can ask to put on a waiting list (Rotating Priority List) at 22 month before travel period, and get to make reservations or stay on the list for next year if none available, I believe you have to have points on that use year. I never did that, so have no idea how it works.
    11 month – RARP Glod+ VIP can make extra FF reservation using all their points
    10 month – Standard Reservation, all FF points (except limit account points) can be used to reserve any resort within FF, you can start to rent points from FF with $10 per 1000
    3 month – Express Reservation, if you rent points from FF the current rate is $5 per 1000 at this period. You can borrow points from the next use year, there are several timelines inside this range.
    2 month – VIP discount starts, sometime, FF may provide some discount to all members, but you can not combine VIP discount with FF’s generic discount.
    1 month – You can use limit account points for reservation.
    For reservation before Standard Reservation, it has to be 7 days, 4 day, or 3 days period or combination of this
    For reservation within 10 month, if it is prime season, , it has to be 7 days, 4 day, or 3 days period or combination of this. If it is high season, it has to be 2 night min.
    Although the directory states that all reservation must be 2 night min. I did make 1 night stay reservation, but that was long time ago. I will believe it is negotiable and subject to VC and availability.

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