Maintenance Fees

[JudyS]

Originally Posted by bournehall

.... It seemed to be a scam with the price they were charging..... I find it very difficult to believe that one small condo e.g. takes $500 per year per week to maintain .....

I want to second the comment by John (timeos2) that the scam is in the original selling price, not the ongoing fees for maintenance. As others here have noted, a maintenance cost of $500 annual per week owned is reasonable when one considers the various expenses of running a resort. On the other hand, the average cost of buying a week of timeshare purchased "new" (from the developer) is around $15,000. $15,000 for one week times 50 weeks is $750,000 per timeshare condo. When you consider that a typical timeshare resort costs maybe $200,000 (and maybe less) per condo to build, it's pretty clearly a rip-off.

I hear good things about Bluegreen, but I'd strongly advise buying resale. BocaBum is a Bluegreen expert and should have Bluegreen resale packages for sale. I'd suggest buying from him.

[tonyg]

One of the keys to selecting a timeshare to buy is due diligence on the management of the company. There are still a few resorts out there with low fees and good upkeep- with no record of special assessments. I'm not sure what the current average fee is but it was around $ 400 just a few years ago. Now anything under $ 500 looks attractive.

[brucecz]

It is easy to verify with common sense as you check out comparables units prices on resales and the same bought through a resorts sales staff.

If you compare the price charged if bought through a resort engaged in active sales and compare it to a resale for same unit type for the same type of usage. You will see that the the resale in most cases are 50% to 90% less in price.

A fair example is that the OP may have been quoted a finial price from Bluegreen of about $1.50 per Bluegreen Point, but could get similar Bluegreen Points from Boca Bum for about 2/3 less in price at about 50 cents per Bluegreen Point.

Bruce

In regards to Maintenance fees, for 2006 we paid out over $14,000 in maintenance fees without including houskeeping fees, etc.

Originally Posted by Theo

I am not disputing the statement, but I am curious to know how/where you have come to obtain and cite "50% or more of the original purchase cost to marketing and other lost expenses".

You might very well be correct and I am not (and do not claim to be) in any position to dispute the statement. I would just like to know where the claim originates and/or what backs it up.......

[1950bing]

Be sure not to overlook the cost factor of people who do not pay their fair share. Guess who pays for the ones that don't pay mfs ? You do ! Also, the board can increase your amount just because they can. You are all ready fueling the big money machine and what are you going to do if you don't like the increase ? You are going to pay anyway. I have always felt that all owners should vote on issues concerning increasing costs. I don't trust a board to look out for me and my pocketbook. Owners do not have a voice.

[sideshowbob72]

As one who has yet to buy a timeshare, the one thing that really makes me uneasy is the fact that I am agreeing to pay maintenance fees for as long as I own it. The MF is known at the time of purchase, but there is no guarantee it will remain at that amount in the future. There is no cap on fee increases and there is always the possiblity of a special assessment.

I understand that maintenance costs can vary widely depending on where the resort; is there a beachfront, golf course or other high maintenance amenities. This is especially true in Hawaii, an area we are very interested in.

How do you determine if the MF of a resort is appropriate?

Are there any resort chains that are especially good, or bad, in this category?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

[timeos2]

Originally Posted by sideshowbob72

As one who has yet to buy a timeshare, the one thing that really makes me uneasy is the fact that I am agreeing to pay maintenance fees for as long as I own it. The MF is known at the time of purchase, but there is no guarantee it will remain at that amount in the future. There is no cap on fee increases and there is always the possiblity of a special assessment.

I understand that maintenance costs can vary widely depending on where the resort; is there a beachfront, golf course or other high maintenance amenities. This is especially true in Hawaii, an area we are very interested in.

How do you determine if the MF of a resort is appropriate?

Are there any resort chains that are especially good, or bad, in this category?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

No resort or chain can guarantee fees. Who can know what the cost of utilities will be in 5 years or ten? Who can say if storms will hit, if floods might occur, if there was shoddy construction underneath that great looking wall or roof?

You also have to realize that most developers under price fees - especially reserves that pay for the capital improvements and renovations - during the early years to make the sale easier. When a resort gets to be 10 years old and is (hopefully) under owner control you can often get a better idea of what the true ongoing costs will be.

Yes there could be special assessments or emergencies but you hope things are being funded properly over time. Again no one can guarantee that.

I just read somewhere a post that said their resort group (WorldMark I think) had so much money in reserves that they could suffer multi million dollar catastrophes and still not need a special assessment. Either they are reading the figures wrong, applying collections for multiple resorts to one resort or that group is collecting far too much from the owners. You want the right amount collected, perhaps a bit too much isn't a bad thing, but certainly not millions in unlikely to be needed funds. Something doesn't add up in that picture.

Again by owning a resort you plan to use and return to you can keep up with the conditions and if the finances are being handled well. You do tend to lose sight of those things if you belong to a mini-system which tends to be run by the developers. In those cases you have to have faith in the system and th operators. Given the history of timesharing that may be a risky thing to have.

[BoardGirl]

Originally Posted by 1950bing

Be sure not to overlook the cost factor of people who do not pay their fair share. Guess who pays for the ones that don't pay mfs ? You do ! Also, the board can increase your amount just because they can. You are all ready fueling the big money machine and what are you going to do if you don't like the increase ? You are going to pay anyway. I have always felt that all owners should vote on issues concerning increasing costs. I don't trust a board to look out for me and my pocketbook. Owners do not have a voice.

Wrong. I ran for the board last year. I didn't get enuf votes, but as an owner, I was invited to run. Sat thru the board meeting, too, met the officers, etc.

Don't assume that you cannot participate.

[1950bing]

I had a friend on the board where I used to own and he told me outright that they have to increase paying owners fees to cover for the ones that don't pay.
They would never let that out because that would fire people up but it DOES happen ! Just one of the dirty things about t/s ownership.
For me to "participate" would mean a vote from any owner who wishes to vote on matters that involve owner costs. For a bunch of guys and girls sitting around a table deciding how much money they need from me without informing me is just wrong. I don't trust them.
In short, the board can and will raise fees just because they can !

[timeos2]

Originally Posted by 1950bing

I had a friend on the board where I used to own and he told me outright that they have to increase paying owners fees to cover for the ones that don't pay.
They would never let that out because that would fire people up but it DOES happen ! Just one of the dirty things about t/s ownership.
For me to "participate" would mean a vote from any owner who wishes to vote on matters that involve owner costs. For a bunch of guys and girls sitting around a table deciding how much money they need from me without informing me is just wrong. I don't trust them.
In short, the board can and will raise fees just because they can !

You are absolutely correct that those who pay must cover the costs for those that do not. Does your resort have a line in the budget for "Bad Debt"? Then that is what it is costing your owners to cover those who do not pay their share.

It is up to your Association Board to minimize that number by doing everything possible to reduce delinquencies. They also need to assure that unpaid time does NOT get used by the owners but is offered as rental to recover at least some of the income. If done correctly the owners know they will not have use if they do not pay and will lose the unit if non-payment goes on very long.

You participate in the operation of your resort by electing your Board members. They speak for you. It would be nearly impossible to operate most timeshares or even condominiums if it required a vote of all owners to do anything. If you don't like the way your resort is run then vote out the Board and vote in a new group - maybe run for the unpaid spot if you really want to see how things operate and have a hand in it.

Now I realize that some resorts are loaded with Developer lackeys and they do in fact run roughshod over the individual owners. In those cases you have to decide if ownership there makes sense and, if so, if you want to fight to get control for the owners. It can be a heck of a battle but can be done.

One thing for sure just sitting back and saying nothing can be done or that all Boards/managements aren't doing whats best for the owners are false generalities. Many, maybe even most, Boards do the best they can and try to look out for the owners interests. That usually does not mean they never raise fees as it costs money to operate and maintain timeshares. Get involved and you'll learn just how much and why.

[BocaBum99]

Originally Posted by 1950bing

I had a friend on the board where I used to own and he told me outright that they have to increase paying owners fees to cover for the ones that don't pay.
They would never let that out because that would fire people up but it DOES happen ! Just one of the dirty things about t/s ownership.
For me to "participate" would mean a vote from any owner who wishes to vote on matters that involve owner costs. For a bunch of guys and girls sitting around a table deciding how much money they need from me without informing me is just wrong. I don't trust them.
In short, the board can and will raise fees just because they can !

How is that different than any product or service you buy in the country? The only way to prevent that is to buy a huge plot of land on an island, move there and grow your own food and catch your own fish.

If you don't choose that alternative, then you need to find a socialist country that will pay for all of your needs at the expense of those who actually do earn a living doing what they do. Or, you need to trust that those providing you products and services are trying to give you value for you money.