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Thread: Do I have a case for getting out of Timeshare

  1. #1

    Do I have a case for getting out of Timeshare

    Do I have a case for getting out of Timeshare...
    Short story... In a timeshare, time matters.
    My grandmother bought a timeshare at Hot Springs Village Coopershares on 8/30/1983 with her husband. I went there once around 1984. I think it was used 3 or 4 times in the next 3 or 4 years until her husband died. From that time until now (roughly 27 years) I don't think it has been used. My father, during a weak mental moment, transferred the title from grandma to himself on her demise per their agreement on 11/11/1999. Dad passed away in 12/24/2011. The expiration of the original contract terms explicitly states that it expired on 1/5/13 at 4:00 PM, unless extended as provided in such declaration. The time, per the original contract seems to matter.

    Longer story...
    There was a meeting of the ‘Association’ on November 6, 2012 as there probably is every November for the purpose of discussing things like the “2013 ‘it’s time to continue to screw over the timeshare holders that have no desire to own the timeshare that has been hung around there neck like an albatross, that is worth $0’ issue”, and have the majority vote to continue this evil scheme, since the minority has no recourse.
    We did not receive notice of the November 6th 2012 meeting and were not a party involved in the consideration of the ‘extension of the term of the Declaration’ and it is not legally binding.
    It was also forced on us without recourse.. Regardless, it is a moot point knowing that the 731 heartless members that are happy with their timeshare arrangements, voted yes, to locking the 70 members who are very unhappy with their worthless time shares and voted no, into continuing to pay the maintenance fee for them.

    Article XIX of the Original Declaration provided that the Original Declaration would terminate and cease to encumber the real property described therein as of the first Saturday in the year 2013 unless the Association board of directors, not less than (30) days nor more than 60 days prior to the actual date of such termination, called a special meeting of all Association owners during which said owners, by majority vote of those present and voting, affirmatively voted to continue the term and enforceability of the Original Declaration for an additional ten (10) year period of time; and

    Whereas, pursuant to Article XIV, Section 1(B), the Association board of directors duly called a meeting of the association members to be convened at 10:00 a.m. on November 6, 2012, ….

    01/05/2013 16:00
    - 11/06/2012 10:05
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    60.24652778

    Days Hours Min
    60 5.000 0.55

    Since the meeting was called more than 60 days prior to the actual date of such termination by 1/4th of a day, it is invalid per HSVC documents. If it would’ve been convened after 11/6/2012 at 4:00:00 PM it would’ve been valid per HSVC documents. Similarly, if the meeting was conducted within HSVC documents and the members voted to not extend the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, we would’ve owned the timeshare on 1/5/13 at 3:59 PM, but no longer own it on 1/5/13 at 4:01 PM, so time does matter.

    I have called and sent them all of this information a couple of times and they basically say to transfer the deed in my name and then transfer options back to HSVC can be discussed..... Right...

    I would gladly pay a lawyer 2,000$ to bird dog this, file paper work in court to challenge the ‘extension of the term of the Declaration’, that results in the deed filed at the courthouse reverting back to HSVC.

  2. #2
    Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick
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    I am not the Timeshare Attorney, but he and I have talked about another Coopershares/Escapes!/Festiva resort.

    Things are similar at other ones of them, and I have been dealing with it for some time:

    http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...hlight=escapes

    If you want my 2 cents worth, let me know.

    Whose name is it in now?
    RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

  3. #3
    While I am not familiar with the resort and its documents and any quirks in state law there and am not the timeshare attorney on this board, generally it is not a matter of owning or not owning, but a difference in the manner in which you own.

    As long as a valid timeshare plan is in force, part of it means that the normal right of a tenant in common to petition for partition, that is get the court to order sale of the property and division of the proceeds among the multiple owners, is not allowed. If the timeshare plan expires and is not validly extended, the timeshare members then normally become tenants in common of the whole property and a petition to partition can be filed. You need to have a lawyer in the state where the timeshare is located look at this. At the very least, this may strengthen your hand in negotiating with the association to take a deedback.

  4. #4
    It is still in my fathers name. When we called them after my fathers death we were told to just send a death certificate and they would take care of it, and take care of it they did. They changed the name on the account from his name to the estate of his name. We were then told about six months ago, if we would just probate the will and get the name on the deed changed then we could discuss transfer options with them. Translation... change the name on the deed to show you willingly changed ownership and also make it easier to collect from you,

    I saw/replied to your other post first.
    Here's a link with the details of the meeting to extend terms.
    http://pages.suddenlink.net/jnspc5/d...opershares.pdf

    I will check out your link.

  5. #5
    Silver Contributor and supermoderator GrayFal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
    It is still in my fathers name. When we called them after my fathers death we were told to just send a death certificate and they would take care of it, and take care of it they did. They changed the name on the account from his name to the estate of his name. We were then told about six months ago, if we would just probate the will and get the name on the deed changed then we could discuss transfer options with them. Translation... change the name on the deed to show you willingly changed ownership and also make it easier to collect from you,

    I saw/replied to your other post first.
    Here's a link with the details of the meeting to extend terms.
    http://pages.suddenlink.net/jnspc5/d...opershares.pdf

    I will check out your link.
    I am not a lawyer but this has been discussed many many many times in another timeshare board.
    If the TS is ONLY in your dads name and he is deceased, they can not make anyone including your mother take ownership of this property.
    From my reading, even if it is part of the estate, they can not make you pay the fees or change the deed to your name.

    Here is an example
    http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=estate

    http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ght=Inheriting


    And this one
    http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ght=Inheriting

    These are just a few to start with but since no one but dads name is on the deed, you and your other family members do not have to accept this burden.
    Please consult an attorney who is familiar with this area.

    JLBs situation that he linked above is quite different, he is the actual owner of the property.

    You are not an owner.

  6. #6
    Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayFal View Post
    I am not a lawyer but this has been discussed many many many times in another timeshare board.
    If the TS is ONLY in your dads name and he is deceased, they can not make anyone including your mother take ownership of this property.
    From my reading, even if it is part of the estate, they can not make you pay the fees or change the deed to your name.

    Here is an example
    http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=estate

    http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ght=Inheriting


    And this one
    http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ght=Inheriting

    These are just a few to start with but since no one but dads name is on the deed, you and your other family members do not have to accept this burden.
    Please consult an attorney who is familiar with this area.

    JLBs situation that he linked above is quite different, he is the actual owner of the property.

    You are not an owner.
    Amen. . . exactly what I surmised but needed the OP to confirm.

    Walk away, Renee, and don't look back, Jack.

    The reason I linked is because it is the same mini-system-gone-kaput, not because the situation might be the same. And, BTW, I had another episode with that the same day I posted above.

    What's still not clear is whether the OP's issue is with Hot Springs Village or with Festiiva/Patton Hospitality, which is a whole new Fine Kettle of Fish.
    - - - - -
    Is this up my Alley?

    A story told many times before . . . When my elderly neighbor, who sold timeshares among other things, was diagnosed with terminal cancer, he and his Significant Other asked me to help them get rid of their (Mexican) timeshares "because I do this stuff every day" (their words).

    On another forum I actually found someone willing to take them (yeah . . . back in the day), but my neighbor and SO wanted cash for weeks they had Spacebanked, so that did that deal in.

    I corresponded and talked to their resort, a miracle in itself, and did what they required to get SO's name off the ownership, which I got done. She was not burdened with the timeshares when he died.

    Awhile later, she had me help her use those Spacebanked weeks with her new boyfriend.

    Any day now I am expecting her to say Thanks.

    RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

  7. #7
    Thank you Grayfal and JLB

  8. #8
    Industry Representative ConsumerProtectionLawyer's Avatar
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    Let's make it simple, hopefully!

    This is Consumer Protection Attorney, John Phillip Abrams, and frankly, this time, for the first time, I have to disagree with many of the comments and links (confusing distinct legal issues).

    As for the core concern, some questions remain as to how title was taken and whether your Dad broke the chain, and if so did he obligate you to the resort (or not?)--but it may be rather simple to just request the Resort/HOA provide a good faith waiver letter specifically waiving any obligations for you to satisfy related debts. If they claim you do owe fees, then a legal divestment may be needed where the resort releases you forever on legal documents prepared and/or signed by the resort/HOA as appropriate.

    As to the transfer-it-to-yourself-willfully suggestion, I concur with your apprehensive instincts, by what appears to be self-serving interests by the Resort/HOA, because then you would be certainly liable for the ownership and associated fees.

    My sincerest hope is they honor your request for a waiver letter specifically referencing the timeshare. This is not as good as legal docs like a deed and mutual release pursuant to a divestment (that costs money), but you may not even be on the hook, and if so, the letter would clear that up by showing plain intent.

    Good Luck!

    John Abrams
    Consumer Lawyer
    TheAbramsFirm.com

  9. #9
    Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick
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    Hi John.



    Got rid of three of ours, the ones we talked about. It only took what, 6 years?

    Two more to go.

    RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

  10. #10
    What about the meeting to extend the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions another 10 years (without any agreement from us), being out of order per their docs by 6 hours?
    If they would have voted not to extend DoCaR, then we would’ve owned the timeshare on 1/5/13 at 3:59 PM, but no longer own it on 1/5/13 at 4:01 PM, so time does matter.

    Article XIX of the Original Declaration provided that the Original Declaration would terminate and cease to encumber the real property described therein as of the first Saturday in the year 2013 unless the Association board of directors, not less than (30) days nor more than 60 days prior to the actual date of such termination, called a special meeting of all Association owners during which said owners, by majority vote of those present and voting, affirmatively voted to continue the term and enforceability of the Original Declaration for an additional ten (10) year period of time; and

    Whereas, pursuant to Article XIV, Section 1(B), the Association board of directors duly called a meeting of the association members to be convened at 10:00 a.m. on November 6, 2012, ….

    01/05/2013 16:00
    - 11/06/2012 10:05
    -----------------------
    60.24652778

    Days Hours Min
    60 5.000 0.55

    Since the meeting was called more than 60 days prior to the actual date of such termination by 1/4th of a day, it is invalid per HSVC documents. If it would’ve been convened after 11/6/2012 at 4:00:00 PM it would’ve been valid per HSVC documents. Similarly, if the meeting was conducted within HSVC documents and the members voted to not extend the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, we would’ve owned the timeshare on 1/5/13 at 3:59 PM, but no longer own it on 1/5/13 at 4:01 PM, so time does matter.

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