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Thread: Legal question for anyone

  1. #11
    Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg View Post
    Foreclosure and deedback give the same results to the HOA - non-performing weeks. The HOA should have a resales program to create new owners and get a higher percentage of performing weeks. The big difference is to the prior owner that's involved- foreclosure looks bad and deedback is neutral. Why anger people for the same result to the HOA. There is one other difference, HOA owned non-performing weeks incur real estate taxes, so some HOA's just let them slide until the city/town forecloses to avoid tax liability.
    Now we're actually getting ideas, something the other thread seems to be lacking.

    Have you actually seen timeshare weeks at County tax sales? I haven't around here, and pay attention to those listings.

    FWIW, when it comes to losing property to tax sales, the true owner has considerable time to deal with it. First, it has to be delinquent 1, 2 or 3 years, at each county's option, to go to the tax sale. Then if someone "buys" it at the sale the first year, the true owner has two years to redeem it, by paying the amount in arrears plus 8% from the date of the tax sale. If it does not sell the first year, then does in a subsequent year, the true owner has 12 months to redeem it, same as before. I have bought around 70 properties at tax sales, and resold them all.

    Rentals
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    Downsizing: Conversion to full ownership
    Last edited by JLB; 06-28-2014 at 10:40 AM.
    RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

  2. #12
    Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg View Post
    Foreclosure and deedback give the same results to the HOA - non-performing weeks.
    Same complaint owners who want out have.


    “Better to have them inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in”

    Lyndon B. Johnson quotes (American 36th US President (1963-69). 1908-1973)
    RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

  3. #13
    I dont know that my favorite resort has a deedback program, but they do have a ton of non performing weeks. (17% of the budget is noted as bad debt) What they do is make these weeks available to the owners. just pay the maintenance fees and get another week to use. In essence they are renting for just enough to cover the fees...this program is so successful that they have to limit the numbers to one "rental" per week owned. I own 10 and "rent" 10 and rent the the whole mess out....good for me and good for the hoa.

  4. #14
    Some kind of legal solution may be a possible answer. something along the lines of arbitrary enforcement, discrimination, or favoritism - which are all illegal activities by an HOA.

    There is going to have to be some motivation for a resort to take the deeds back, it's not going to be voluntary by the HOAs - it's obvious they're not willing to play. Some might be willing, but it's going to take a mass uprising, mass exodus, or possibly some kind of new legislation before they realize they have problem on their hands. If they get enough empty non-paying units they'll be forced to come up with some kind of solution.

    Or another solution - how about a business that offers to take over the deedback program and resells them at a profit? The business makes the resort a cut and an offer they can't refuse? Anybody got any spare time on their hands?

  5. #15
    Goomba & Super Moderator tonyg's Avatar
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    I had reported earlier this month that the city of Ellsworth, Maine had foreclosed on 137 weeks of a timeshare. One can go down to the town hall and buy one (or more) of these weeks for under $ 1,000 each. Most of these were formerly owned by the developer who has been in financial problems for years. Unfortunately, someone bought the week I was most interested in or I would have gladly plunked down the $ 566.27 to buy it. This is one of those cases where the HOA did not foreclose, pushing the city to foreclose instead. The HOA did not want to have around 80 weeks to pay tax on if they had foreclosed. The timeshare in this case has a deedback policy in force.

  6. #16
    Industry Representative ConsumerProtectionLawyer's Avatar
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    Reply... while on vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by JLB View Post
    I believe an HOA can do anything they want, within the law. That means doing deedbacks from anyone they want and not doing deedbacks from anyone they want.
    I'm on vacation, but I saw this discussion by the community supporting each other, and even though I may be out of touch coming up, it was really nice seeing you all working together to help out.

    I pretty much agree with the summation above, in that Resorts/HOAs can do pretty much whatever they want, which is usually NOT what the owner who is done with their timeshare would prefer (i.e. departing owners just want a simple Deedback, and hopefully with no fees or strings attached, but most are refused such relief and are just told to PAY or face the consequences, including credit reporting, third party collections, judgments, attorney fees and foreclosures).

    Having said that, here is where the Consumer Protection Attorney services could be handy... especially if there are NO Upfront Fees putting the burden on the law firm that's hired to perform first!

    It would make sense as some of you pointed out to have an in-house Resale Program for their owners, but they have a couple of reasons (among others) they won't do that: (1) they don't need your inventory [from prior foreclosures to points programs, the resorts often have plentiful inventory], and (2) if they sold your timeshare to a new owner, they would owe you $10-$30,000 that they want for themselves. Here is the BIGGEST reason: It goes against their business model to make a way to end the maintenance fee cycle, which for many is a perpetual contract obligation for the owner's life and their descendants [we can talk about this tricky aspect after my vacation if you like].

    I'll check this when I get back from vacation, and until then, keep supporting each other and the timeshare world will be a safer place!!

    John Abrams
    Be Safe - TCPAA.org

  7. #17
    Thanks for responding John. If what you're saying is true, and I do believe it to be true, we can squawk all we want to and this environment is never going to change. There is no way that most resorts are going to be willing to get involved in the selling process.

    For me personally, I think I'll be ok. I've got a summer week in June, so I should be able to give it away and/or pay fees for a year or two. Guess I'll never know until I try.

  8. #18
    Goomba & Super Moderator tonyg's Avatar
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    From what I have heard, HOAs or developers who send accounts out for collection generally end up spending more money than they ever collect.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ConsumerProtectionLawyer View Post
    I'm on vacation, but I saw this discussion by the community supporting each other, and even though I may be out of touch coming up, it was really nice seeing you all working together to help out.

    I pretty much agree with the summation above, in that Resorts/HOAs can do pretty much whatever they want, which is usually NOT what the owner who is done with their timeshare would prefer (i.e. departing owners just want a simple Deedback, and hopefully with no fees or strings attached, but most are refused such relief and are just told to PAY or face the consequences, including credit reporting, third party collections, judgments, attorney fees and foreclosures).

    Having said that, here is where the Consumer Protection Attorney services could be handy... especially if there are NO Upfront Fees putting the burden on the law firm that's hired to perform first!

    It would make sense as some of you pointed out to have an in-house Resale Program for their owners, but they have a couple of reasons (among others) they won't do that: (1) they don't need your inventory [from prior foreclosures to points programs, the resorts often have plentiful inventory], and (2) if they sold your timeshare to a new owner, they would owe you $10-$30,000 that they want for themselves. Here is the BIGGEST reason: It goes against their business model to make a way to end the maintenance fee cycle, which for many is a perpetual contract obligation for the owner's life and their descendants [we can talk about this tricky aspect after my vacation if you like].

    I'll check this when I get back from vacation, and until then, keep supporting each other and the timeshare world will be a safer place!!

    John Abrams
    Be Safe - TCPAA.org

    John

    I think you are confusing the business model of the developer with the business model of the hoa. The hoa is not a business in the sense that most of us understand...The hoa is a non profit association. it is the owners of the resort. and it is the owners that have the most at stake, It just makes common sense to me that the owners have the most to lose when intervals are non performing, and the most to gain when their association has a plan to deal with these problems.

  10. #20
    Industry Representative ConsumerProtectionLawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg View Post
    From what I have heard, HOAs or developers who send accounts out for collection generally end up spending more money than they ever collect.
    Actually, if they send it to a 3rd party collection company [assign the debt] they get paid upfront (for example, 75 cents on the dollar), and the collectors can go legal if they don't get paid. If you have a mortgage, this is a worst case scenario where the debt is outside the control of the resort and you have valid claims that would otherwise relieve the debt in a settlement. Without that mortgage debt relief, why would you settle? This forces a litigation because the 3rd party has no incentive to cancel the debt that you must continue paying. To the 3rd party collector, it's all about collecting the money (the collector did not use problematic sales practices, they never sold the consumer anything).

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