PDA

View Full Version : Vacu Vin



Glitter Brunello
03-21-2011, 03:25 PM
Starting another thread for this, but responding to TR's comment on the Tempranillo thread -- I have an old school Vacu Vin (plain grey corks, white hand pump). I use it and pump it until I hear the clicking sound a couple of times but still often find a deterioration in the wine the next day, and almost always if I leave it more than a day.

Am I doing something wrong or is there a product out that would do a better job?

bigfrank
03-21-2011, 03:31 PM
IMO this is the best out there, For under $20 I love it. BTW you can buy extra corks and even ones that work with Champane. Check Amazon.com

T. R. Oglodyte
03-21-2011, 04:14 PM
Starting another thread for this, but responding to TR's comment on the Tempranillo thread -- I have an old school Vacu Vin (plain grey corks, white hand pump). I use it and pump it until I hear the clicking sound a couple of times but still often find a deterioration in the wine the next day, and almost always if I leave it more than a day.

Am I doing something wrong or is there a product out that would do a better job?

I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

The situation is that wine in an unopened bottled is in an anoxic state. The cork admits a very small amount of air, allowing the wine to age, but the amount of oxygen entering the bottle through the original enclosure is very small.

As soon as you open the bottle you introduce oxygen, and chemical changes start happening. With those "closed" wines the oxygenation opens them up. But the oxidation continues, and often the results are not good.

******

What the vacu-vin does is remove much of the oxygen from the head space in the bottle. But there is still residual oxygen in the wine itself, as well as oxygen remaining in the head space. So what the vacu-vin does is simply slow down the oxidation process. The bottle goes bad more slowly.

I believe there are some devices that actually fill the bottle with nitrogen, which is inert, then seal the bottle. I've never tried one. From my engineering perspective I would expect that to be a better preservation approach; I've seen reports in which people assert that it performs better than a vacuum seal and I have no problem accepting that.

But that doesn't mean that an inerting system will stop deterioration; again all it does is slow down the process more than the vacu-vin does.

*********

My strategy to avoid deterioration of stored wine is to drink it all before it has a chance to go bad.

lawren2
03-21-2011, 04:19 PM
I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

The situation is that wine in an unopened bottled is in an anoxic state. The cork admits a very small amount of air, allowing the wine to age, but the amount of oxygen entering the bottle through the original enclosure is very small.

As soon as you open the bottle you introduce oxygen, and chemical changes start happening. With those "closed" wines the oxygenation opens them up. But the oxidation continues, and often the results are not good.

******

What the vacu-vin does is remove much of the oxygen from the head space in the bottle. But there is still residual oxygen in the wine itself, as well as oxygen remaining in the head space. So what the vacu-vin does is simply slow down the oxidation process. The bottle goes bad more slowly.

I believe there are some devices that actually fill the bottle with nitrogen, which is inert, then seal the bottle. I've never tried one. From my engineering perspective I would expect that to be a better preservation approach; I've seen reports in which people assert that it performs better than a vacuum seal and I have no problem accepting that.

But that doesn't mean that an inerting system will stop deterioration; again all it does is slow down the process more than the vacu-vin does.

*********

My strategy to avoid deterioration of stored wine is to drink it all before it has a chance to go bad.

Works for me. :biggrin:

Glitter Brunello
03-21-2011, 05:01 PM
Trog - thanks for the detailed explanation, it makes sense that whatever's been introduced to the wine itself will continue to act. I'm def not going to invest in a nitrogen machine.




My strategy to avoid deterioration of stored wine is to drink it all before it has a chance to go bad.


Works for me. :biggrin:

I tend to agree with you and employ this strategy as often as possible. But I also like to enjoy a glass (or at least not an entire bottle :abused:) without worrying about wasting the rest. It's also nice to be able to offer someone a glass from a vacu-sealed bottled without it having turned...

Glitter Brunello
03-21-2011, 05:02 PM
IMO this is the best out there, For under $20 I love it. BTW you can buy extra corks and even ones that work with Champane. Check Amazon.com

:link: please...

vinolover
03-21-2011, 08:20 PM
:link: please...

What she said.

bigfrank
03-21-2011, 11:05 PM
Amazon.com: vacu vin wine saver (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_19?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vacu+vin+wine+saver&sprefix=vacu+vin+wine+saver#) There are 2 sizes but there maybe 2 different vacu vins and it may not work with each other there is one that clicks and the old vacu vin that does not click. BTW I also bout a Vacu vin meat maranater which also uses the same stopers. I like it but I wish it was bigger.

1 more link to stopers http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_17?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vacu+vin+stoppers&sprefix=vacu+vin+stoppers

vintner
03-23-2011, 10:29 AM
I think Trog did a wonderful explanation of what happens when a wine is opened.

One additional comment is that the vacu vin corks will deteriorate. I have several that won't hold a seal. If you open the seal and don't hear the whoosh of air, or give the gray cork a tug and it comes out of the bottle, it is time to replace them.

Another way of preserving the wine a little longer, after the vacu vin cork is on and the air has been sucked out, put the bottle into a fridge. That will extend the flavors for a few more days. Of course you will want the bottle to be removed to rewarm to proper temps before pulling the cork and serving.

I have used the canned nitrogen and while I believe it will work better than just the old cork or the vacu vin, I am not keeping wine around long enough to justify the extra costs.

vinolover
03-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Amazon.com: vacu vin wine saver (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_19?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vacu+vin+wine+saver&sprefix=vacu+vin+wine+saver#) There are 2 sizes but there maybe 2 different vacu vins and it may not work with each other there is one that clicks and the old vacu vin that does not click. BTW I also bout a Vacu vin meat maranater which also uses the same stopers. I like it but I wish it was bigger.

1 more link to stopers Amazon.com: vacu vin stoppers (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_17?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vacu+vin+stoppers&sprefix=vacu+vin+stoppers)

That's the same one I use. Works great. I agree with Vintner that you need to replace the rubber stoppers after a while ( but they last a long time). Also agree that putting it in the fridge helps but I usually just put it back in the VinoTemp and drink within a day. We do buy some of the 1.5 bottles of wine and keep for a few days with no problem.

T. R. Oglodyte
03-23-2011, 10:52 AM
One other note on changes in flavor after opening - and this doesn't just apply to wine.

We really only have four taste sensation - sweet, sour, salty, and bitter. Those are perceived in the mouth. Everything else is aroma and is perceived in the nose. That's why food tastes flat when we have nasal congestion.

Since aromas are due to smell, they are caused by the release of volatile chemicals from the food. Flavors are complex, which means there is a complex range of chemicals being released to create that flavor. And different chemicals have different degrees of volatility, which means some of them will tend to volatilize out of the food quickly, while others will proceed more slowly.

And that is another reason why the flavor profile of almost any food will change once the packaging is opened. It's why the first cup of coffee tastes different from the second, and it's why old coffee is bitter. (The bitter flavor elements in cough are the least volatile, so they are what remains after the other components have dissipated.)

********

In the case of our "tight" or "closed" red wines, the opening of the bottle doesn't only introduce oxygen, but it also starts that volatilization process.

BTW - you can tell this when you use a vacu-vin. If you get your nose close to the stopper as you're pumping the air out, often you can detect some of the wine aroma. Those are more volatile flavor elements that have volatilized from the wine into the headspace, and are now being pumped out of the bottle by the vacu-vin.

Glitter Brunello
03-23-2011, 11:23 AM
I looked at Frank's link and there are a lot of different models, but all Vacu Vin and seem to operate the same way my old one does. My corks still whoosh and I do refrigerate the sealed wines, so I guess I'm doing the best I can short of nitrogen.

This has been very educational!

Ebates Coupons and Cash Back